on the concept of simulated humans:
let us steer a middling course between the two extremes, of one, the solipsistic nightmare where no other human you see in your world is real, is in fact simulated, and the other, that everyone you meet is a real person, that what you see and hear, in person, is an accurate representation of another person somewhere else in reality. so we have a situation where some people are real, some are not, we are dealing with a confusing world where both cases exist.
what would you call a simulated human anyway? an illusion, a simulant, a robot, what? in any case, you cannot escape the conclusion that even though a simulated human may not be real, it is probably in some or most part just like someone real however. though perhaps some simulated people are what some people merely imagine a person could be like and that no one is really like that?
if we could categorize type and made a careful study of different personalities, well, we might say this simulant is a lot like so and so, who is real, and a little like someone else too, and partly like someone's imagination. maybe some simulated people are completely like someone real, yet we never meet the real person on whom it is based. it's like meeting a proxy of a real person, is it not? and how many types of personalities are there? maybe we could then guess or have an idea of how many real people there are.
the recent expansion in computing suggests perhaps there is more order than there is in reality. we can deduce that because computers now exist, there is something "computer" about reality, and always was, as a base assumption. however, that this whole concept of simulated humans is so strange, so weird, so not ideal, suggests that there was no orderly power behind the creation of all this on Earth, that there is something of chaos extent in the world.
of course, it is interesting to guess the numbers. what is the ratio of real to simulated humans? if it's extreme, it would not be that confusing, it would be like either they're all real, or they're all simulated! but what if it were 1:1? or 1:10? how do we work out who is real and who is simulated? if we assume Earth is more false and the ratio is more like 1:10,000 then we might never meet anyone real in our lifetime on Earth, yet they still exist!
CLEARCHARGE
Showing posts with label illusion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label illusion. Show all posts
Saturday, November 26, 2016
Saturday, February 8, 2014
Hypotheses on Reality and Playing with Belief Cards
hypotheses on reality and playing with belief cards:
"it never comes to that. no one really talks about it, do they, what they really believe about reality? it is unspoken but everyone knows what they have to assume to go about their normal lives on earth and they get it from what they see and hear around them."
"well, nobody really talks about it, but they may think it, that reality, the world of earth, is not quite what it seems, what you say everyone has to assume: an external world, physical motion, materialism or physicalism, whatever you call it. i think the reason really is a paranoid one, that they suspect they'll be accused of being at least slightly crazy and at worst get hauled off to a mental hospital and locked up forever. but then, also, i guess, these things can't be demonstrably proved to anyone else."
"or disproved. like if i say there is no external world, and this is the major plank of belief or assumption that everyone has to go by, really, well then someone will say, "what are we, a brain in a vat?" well, the problem with that is it assumes that there is still an external world outside our brain or our mind, a room with a vat and cables hooking us up to a Matrix-like simulation. the belief lingers on, whereas it should be thrown out completely. there is no external room where our brains are in, no wires, nothing. if anything, it's completely cleanly, invisibly done or connected."
"but we are visually impressionable people. it's not surprising, when everything we see leads us to assume there is an external world out there. we believe more what we see than what we hear, i guess."
"the truth of the matter is that if everyone teleported then the belief in an external world would collapse overnight. i can claim i have, but unless you do it yourself, you're going to doubt it."
"yes. it's completely obvious that the external world is not real when you've done it, teleport that is."
"yes. it's like an epiphany. because that just can't happen if the external world is real and the transition between locations is seamless, i mean, you feel nothing. i've read of other weird things happening to people, like seeing events repeated, a person passing by twice, or finding their car on a different level in the car park or parking lot, and seeing things that weren't there before suddenly appearing and so on."
"well, you could assume you are the only one who has teleported but surely if you'd done it, someone else has as well? it's just a fault in the visual geographical system. maybe it's even a fault or bug in the system that's contagious?"
"it happened to me so it has to happen to someone else? i'm propagating errors in the system?"
"but tell me again what the alternative is to an external material world?"
"right, physical motion is not real or mechanical motion or what seems like motion. in real space, everything exists in a fixed location relative to everything else. only time makes things change state."
"but then with pop culture and everything, you think, well, what is life then if not the commonly thought? is it a dream, is it the Matrix, what is it?"
"well that's where i run into problems too. i mean they are not clear-cut binary alternative possibilities, like is the external world real or not? i mean, i remember my life on earth began as a dream, right, but computers, hey, they're completely real, the technology, right? so it's probably at least a bit of both. what i have noticed, for me anyway, is that when i'm in a dream, i'm completely hazy about the true facts of my life, it's like i have an alternative dream existence that progresses that's similar to my waking life. i dream of my old school, my old homes, but the circumstances are different and when i try to remember facts about my waking life, i often think things that are false, only to realize upon waking, that i was incorrect."
"right, the dreams sweep you up and everything moves so fast that you're completely caught up in it."
"yeah, so you have the amnesia effect that blocks out the truth about waking life."
"which explains why you poorly remember what happened before you were born into this world, on earth. but as a schizophrenic who hears auditory hallucinations, what about that? i mean the question is, obviously, whether you hear thoughts that are your own, or it's coming from real other people."
"it's extremely awkward talking to your psychiatrist about voices. because inevitably, they want to know what you hear, right? and a lot of the stuff is personal. it's either your inner thoughts as sound or it's coming from people that are truly nearby, or even far away, i suppose."
"who may or may not be on earth, as well. how schizophrenic would you say you were, on a scale of 1 to 10?"
"well, there are different aspects. you have the voices, which to every psychiatrist indicates you are schizo, right? maybe i was about a 7 in that area once, at one time i had about 7 or 8 different voices going on at the same time. but the eyesight going haywire, the teleportation, the streams of text i could see, train timetables instantly changing in front of me, different maps of the country where the towns are all in wrong places, travel tickets dated in the future, passages of novels changing, all that made me about at least 9 on that scale, if not 10."
"whatever it is, a Matrix, or a dream, or whatever, is everyone in the same one? i mean, a lot of the stuff must be shared, right?"
"i can see how, if everyone were in their own matrix, they would end up with solipsistic fancies."
"right. all the stuff about the Law of Attraction, i mean, it could work, if you were in your own world, conceivably. but if everyone were in the same earth Matrix, it would seem a little harder to manifest things. you can't control other people and events so much."
"though, imagine a modern house existed right at the start of time. i mean, running hot water and electrical machines and lights. it's like in time, they reverse engineered everything to make it work mechanically, you know, installed plumbing, connected pipes to reservoirs, built power stations and so on. but the point is, that was there, this working house, in the beginning."
"like human is original, not created. OK, if we dismiss the external world outright, since you so proved it wasn't real, i mean, that's one philosophical question out of the way, the big question really is, what about the other people in reality? OK, do we assume everyone is on earth or some are left out? on earth are all the other people we see real or are some simulated people? are there other planets with people on them, in this same universe, could this be a Star Wars or Star Trek universe? are there other simulations running?"
"i don't know. it's like playing with different ideas. if only you had a deck of cards with different ideas or beliefs about reality, i mean you could play around with them, mix and match and see where that leads you. some beliefs negate others but i can see how some could all be real in some way."
"well, i can't help feeling that it is important to know the truth. i mean we may not be able to "know" in the strictest philosophical sense but at least we could think about the truth to some emotional depth. like, if i assume my mother is not real, is just a philosophical zombie, a simulated person, is it important to know that?"
"i think it's important to at least know the true date and how much of the history of earth may not be real. i mean, i've come out with the date Year 442 as the true date before, but that's just what i've heard. a lot of schizophrenics say the voices lie to them and whatever, but what if some of it's true?"
"it would explain a lot. how little everyone knows about reality for starters. and it's not like intelligent life doesn't exist. it does. it would just be that so little time has passed from the start of time that everyone is still feeling around for the truth. but voices do lie is the problem, some of the time. you can't believe everything you hear."
"back to what you were saying. i dreamed about my mother first and then my father second and i think i woke up next to my father and sister on a plane from Taipei to Hawaii on 29 August, 1975. US Immigration stamped the date at Honolulu on my passport which i still have. but my official birthday is February 11, 1972, so i was already 3 years old when i was truly born on earth. i guess some might say that's when my soul truly arrived."
"you still dream about your parents don't you?"
"yes. and they're alternative versions of them."
"you know, some would say that you merely forgot everything that happened before."
"well, no, i clearly remember the dream sequence leading up to that. i've never forgot. so i definitely have preferences, is waking life a dream? well, no, but it's, derived from it, is that the right word?"
"of course, the other big question, is what happens when you die on earth?"
"yes. are we fated to reincarnate on earth or do we go back to whatever it was before? because whatever real matter we are, it can't cease to exist right, it could only change to something very different at worst, right?"
"but back to the here and now. i'm obsessed with knowing who, if given some people are not real, is actually real that i interact with on a regular basis. i mean, what figure should i hold in my mind? are we all surrounded by illusions of people in our daily life but we read and see and hear about real people in the media?"
"or there could be pockets of real people together in some places. you never know, you could be surrounded by lots of real people, you just don't know it."
"but what is a best guess estimate? 66% zombies? 1% real people? or what?"
"yeah. there is a danger, when you've woken up about the external world not being the case, that you assume you're surrounded by illusions. i mean, it could be really embarrassing. you might know lots of real people but suddenly assume they're all not real."
"i know. i've thought of that. but sometimes people just don't seem real. you can mentally control what some people say or there is a touch of that or they're just completely predictable."
"i don't know. i've had someone say to me before, apropos of nothing, "i'm quite real." and i was grateful to hear it. i don't think anyone, it's not like anyone would come up and say, "i want you to know, i am a zombie, a simulated person, a non-player character, a complete illusion."
"haha. i don't see that happening, you're right."
CLEARCHARGE
"it never comes to that. no one really talks about it, do they, what they really believe about reality? it is unspoken but everyone knows what they have to assume to go about their normal lives on earth and they get it from what they see and hear around them."
"well, nobody really talks about it, but they may think it, that reality, the world of earth, is not quite what it seems, what you say everyone has to assume: an external world, physical motion, materialism or physicalism, whatever you call it. i think the reason really is a paranoid one, that they suspect they'll be accused of being at least slightly crazy and at worst get hauled off to a mental hospital and locked up forever. but then, also, i guess, these things can't be demonstrably proved to anyone else."
"or disproved. like if i say there is no external world, and this is the major plank of belief or assumption that everyone has to go by, really, well then someone will say, "what are we, a brain in a vat?" well, the problem with that is it assumes that there is still an external world outside our brain or our mind, a room with a vat and cables hooking us up to a Matrix-like simulation. the belief lingers on, whereas it should be thrown out completely. there is no external room where our brains are in, no wires, nothing. if anything, it's completely cleanly, invisibly done or connected."
"but we are visually impressionable people. it's not surprising, when everything we see leads us to assume there is an external world out there. we believe more what we see than what we hear, i guess."
"the truth of the matter is that if everyone teleported then the belief in an external world would collapse overnight. i can claim i have, but unless you do it yourself, you're going to doubt it."
"yes. it's completely obvious that the external world is not real when you've done it, teleport that is."
"yes. it's like an epiphany. because that just can't happen if the external world is real and the transition between locations is seamless, i mean, you feel nothing. i've read of other weird things happening to people, like seeing events repeated, a person passing by twice, or finding their car on a different level in the car park or parking lot, and seeing things that weren't there before suddenly appearing and so on."
"well, you could assume you are the only one who has teleported but surely if you'd done it, someone else has as well? it's just a fault in the visual geographical system. maybe it's even a fault or bug in the system that's contagious?"
"it happened to me so it has to happen to someone else? i'm propagating errors in the system?"
"but tell me again what the alternative is to an external material world?"
"right, physical motion is not real or mechanical motion or what seems like motion. in real space, everything exists in a fixed location relative to everything else. only time makes things change state."
"but then with pop culture and everything, you think, well, what is life then if not the commonly thought? is it a dream, is it the Matrix, what is it?"
"well that's where i run into problems too. i mean they are not clear-cut binary alternative possibilities, like is the external world real or not? i mean, i remember my life on earth began as a dream, right, but computers, hey, they're completely real, the technology, right? so it's probably at least a bit of both. what i have noticed, for me anyway, is that when i'm in a dream, i'm completely hazy about the true facts of my life, it's like i have an alternative dream existence that progresses that's similar to my waking life. i dream of my old school, my old homes, but the circumstances are different and when i try to remember facts about my waking life, i often think things that are false, only to realize upon waking, that i was incorrect."
"right, the dreams sweep you up and everything moves so fast that you're completely caught up in it."
"yeah, so you have the amnesia effect that blocks out the truth about waking life."
"which explains why you poorly remember what happened before you were born into this world, on earth. but as a schizophrenic who hears auditory hallucinations, what about that? i mean the question is, obviously, whether you hear thoughts that are your own, or it's coming from real other people."
"it's extremely awkward talking to your psychiatrist about voices. because inevitably, they want to know what you hear, right? and a lot of the stuff is personal. it's either your inner thoughts as sound or it's coming from people that are truly nearby, or even far away, i suppose."
"who may or may not be on earth, as well. how schizophrenic would you say you were, on a scale of 1 to 10?"
"well, there are different aspects. you have the voices, which to every psychiatrist indicates you are schizo, right? maybe i was about a 7 in that area once, at one time i had about 7 or 8 different voices going on at the same time. but the eyesight going haywire, the teleportation, the streams of text i could see, train timetables instantly changing in front of me, different maps of the country where the towns are all in wrong places, travel tickets dated in the future, passages of novels changing, all that made me about at least 9 on that scale, if not 10."
"whatever it is, a Matrix, or a dream, or whatever, is everyone in the same one? i mean, a lot of the stuff must be shared, right?"
"i can see how, if everyone were in their own matrix, they would end up with solipsistic fancies."
"right. all the stuff about the Law of Attraction, i mean, it could work, if you were in your own world, conceivably. but if everyone were in the same earth Matrix, it would seem a little harder to manifest things. you can't control other people and events so much."
"though, imagine a modern house existed right at the start of time. i mean, running hot water and electrical machines and lights. it's like in time, they reverse engineered everything to make it work mechanically, you know, installed plumbing, connected pipes to reservoirs, built power stations and so on. but the point is, that was there, this working house, in the beginning."
"like human is original, not created. OK, if we dismiss the external world outright, since you so proved it wasn't real, i mean, that's one philosophical question out of the way, the big question really is, what about the other people in reality? OK, do we assume everyone is on earth or some are left out? on earth are all the other people we see real or are some simulated people? are there other planets with people on them, in this same universe, could this be a Star Wars or Star Trek universe? are there other simulations running?"
"i don't know. it's like playing with different ideas. if only you had a deck of cards with different ideas or beliefs about reality, i mean you could play around with them, mix and match and see where that leads you. some beliefs negate others but i can see how some could all be real in some way."
"well, i can't help feeling that it is important to know the truth. i mean we may not be able to "know" in the strictest philosophical sense but at least we could think about the truth to some emotional depth. like, if i assume my mother is not real, is just a philosophical zombie, a simulated person, is it important to know that?"
"i think it's important to at least know the true date and how much of the history of earth may not be real. i mean, i've come out with the date Year 442 as the true date before, but that's just what i've heard. a lot of schizophrenics say the voices lie to them and whatever, but what if some of it's true?"
"it would explain a lot. how little everyone knows about reality for starters. and it's not like intelligent life doesn't exist. it does. it would just be that so little time has passed from the start of time that everyone is still feeling around for the truth. but voices do lie is the problem, some of the time. you can't believe everything you hear."
"back to what you were saying. i dreamed about my mother first and then my father second and i think i woke up next to my father and sister on a plane from Taipei to Hawaii on 29 August, 1975. US Immigration stamped the date at Honolulu on my passport which i still have. but my official birthday is February 11, 1972, so i was already 3 years old when i was truly born on earth. i guess some might say that's when my soul truly arrived."
"you still dream about your parents don't you?"
"yes. and they're alternative versions of them."
"you know, some would say that you merely forgot everything that happened before."
"well, no, i clearly remember the dream sequence leading up to that. i've never forgot. so i definitely have preferences, is waking life a dream? well, no, but it's, derived from it, is that the right word?"
"of course, the other big question, is what happens when you die on earth?"
"yes. are we fated to reincarnate on earth or do we go back to whatever it was before? because whatever real matter we are, it can't cease to exist right, it could only change to something very different at worst, right?"
"but back to the here and now. i'm obsessed with knowing who, if given some people are not real, is actually real that i interact with on a regular basis. i mean, what figure should i hold in my mind? are we all surrounded by illusions of people in our daily life but we read and see and hear about real people in the media?"
"or there could be pockets of real people together in some places. you never know, you could be surrounded by lots of real people, you just don't know it."
"but what is a best guess estimate? 66% zombies? 1% real people? or what?"
"yeah. there is a danger, when you've woken up about the external world not being the case, that you assume you're surrounded by illusions. i mean, it could be really embarrassing. you might know lots of real people but suddenly assume they're all not real."
"i know. i've thought of that. but sometimes people just don't seem real. you can mentally control what some people say or there is a touch of that or they're just completely predictable."
"i don't know. i've had someone say to me before, apropos of nothing, "i'm quite real." and i was grateful to hear it. i don't think anyone, it's not like anyone would come up and say, "i want you to know, i am a zombie, a simulated person, a non-player character, a complete illusion."
"haha. i don't see that happening, you're right."
CLEARCHARGE
Saturday, September 17, 2011
The Motion Illusion
the motion illusion:
as we know in our dreams, changes in place can be abrupt, for suddenly we are somewhere else as if we had teleported there. and so instead of the whole construct that we are moving around on top of a planet Earth in a 3D universe, we should consider the opposite view, that we remain fixed in position, we do not move relative to our surroundings, but the scenery we are so beguiled by moves relative to us. logically there are only two theoretical possibilities.
that people are in motion relative to the surroundings, however, is the theoretical model we have held since day one, that the surroundings are stable and two points are always the same distance from each other and that travel one point to another occurs in an unbroken line.
imagine a model of a series of 2 rooms in which this 3D logic breaks down. there are only 2 rooms with 3 doorways, one at the end of room A, one between rooms A and B, and one at the end of room B. the traveller walks from the end of room A through the doorway between rooms A and B to room B, all according to 3D logic. however when he or she passes through the doorway at the end of room B, he or she finds himself or herself back at the end of room A. now imagine a whole complex of rooms with different rules for which room leads to which room and back again. what if the rules then become unstable and you are never sure which room leads to which room?
in a situation where such 3D logic breaks down, it leaves only the theoretical case that motion in the conventional sense is but an illusion, that we never move at all.
CLEARCHARGE
as we know in our dreams, changes in place can be abrupt, for suddenly we are somewhere else as if we had teleported there. and so instead of the whole construct that we are moving around on top of a planet Earth in a 3D universe, we should consider the opposite view, that we remain fixed in position, we do not move relative to our surroundings, but the scenery we are so beguiled by moves relative to us. logically there are only two theoretical possibilities.
that people are in motion relative to the surroundings, however, is the theoretical model we have held since day one, that the surroundings are stable and two points are always the same distance from each other and that travel one point to another occurs in an unbroken line.
imagine a model of a series of 2 rooms in which this 3D logic breaks down. there are only 2 rooms with 3 doorways, one at the end of room A, one between rooms A and B, and one at the end of room B. the traveller walks from the end of room A through the doorway between rooms A and B to room B, all according to 3D logic. however when he or she passes through the doorway at the end of room B, he or she finds himself or herself back at the end of room A. now imagine a whole complex of rooms with different rules for which room leads to which room and back again. what if the rules then become unstable and you are never sure which room leads to which room?
in a situation where such 3D logic breaks down, it leaves only the theoretical case that motion in the conventional sense is but an illusion, that we never move at all.
CLEARCHARGE
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